Why selvage? - Page 2

ikkyu · 03-21-2008, 02:07 AM

there are two points of selvedge denim which i love:

1) because the fabric cost 4 times as much per yard (the machines are slower and the width as half as much as large projectile looms) as standard denim....most manufacuters decide to go for real indigo dye, since it is already crazy expensive.

there is NOTHING as great as real indigo dye. the way it fades when washed is truly special. and it fades in ways that match the owners body. it is the look all brand try to "replicate" by treating and washing jeans...but no matter how hard they try, it looks contrived.

2) because of the way the old looms work, you get "burrs" in the denim, which feel like rough bumps. new projectile machine all make a very smooth fabric.

the new fabric feels very sterile to me, with no character. again, many brands then try to make it look and feel old after the jeans are made. so they all look the same.

in short, having a great pair of slevedge is like listening to a great old album...YES, I MEAN A REAL RECORD. it has an ambiante warm sound. not a STERILE mp3 sound. it feels real. not contrived.

adero · 03-21-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikkyu

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2) because of the way the old looms work, you get "burrs" in the denim, which feel like rough bumps. new projectile machine all make a very smooth fabric.

I know eggsactly(easter) what you are talking about!!!
some people think the twill is defected; the word you used is the one I use as well to explain: that is what gives it its character.
sometimes even the slightly "uneven" dye with the "highs and the lows" in the colour looks really really nice.

**dumb5** · 03-21-2008, 03:02 PM

so why cant they make modern machines to replicate this "character"?

adero · 03-21-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumb5

so why cant they make modern machines to replicate this "character"?

question spot on!!!!
it is perhaps just a big scam that we(me included) have fallen for....
we managed to put a man on the moon and so on....
surely that is what the "cool" brands are using.
i mean how many of the old looms can there be?

fash · 03-21-2008, 07:47 PM

and if they cant replicate the character with the new machines why cant they just build replicas of the old machines?

adero · 03-21-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fash

and if they cant replicate the character with the new machines why cant they just build replicas of the old machines?

that's what i mean....sorry if abit unclear.

tacifornia · 03-21-2008, 09:02 PM

there are probably not the craftsmen anymore who could make one of the original machines. all machines are made by machines these days. i am not a machineist (like a racist for machines) just them machines have not got a clue when it comes to character. wtf am i talking about?

CD · 03-22-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adero

question spot on!!!!
it is perhaps just a big scam that we(me included) have fallen for....
we managed to put a man on the moon and so on....
surely that is what the "cool" brands are using.
i mean how many of the old looms can there be?

That's what I've believed! I've said before - look at how many brands there are that offer selvedge & we are lead to believe no looms have been made for 40 odd years! They can only make x amount of denim - this just doesn't seem right!!
I know there are modern looms that can make selvedge - I just wonder how many of the companies that make 'vintage selvedge denim jeans' actually use old looms!!
I wouldn't really call it a 'scam' - but I hear what you are saying.
Obviously there are some brands that do use vintage looms for their denim but many can't (the sums don't really add up - unless there are hundreds/thousands more looms than we are told!!).
Either way I love denim - especially selvedge denim!

xzibit · 03-22-2008, 02:14 AM

*climbs onto soapbox*
intimidated by the audience and subject matter.
*climbs down off soapbox, sheepishly*
however i would say i love my canes and i know all canes are made on original vintage looms.

adero · 03-22-2008, 04:00 PM

also there is quality selvedge denim coming out of the US and Italy for example,
and as the story goes" all old looms was bought up by japanese denim enthusiasts "
so that means if true that new machines are being used.
a matter of taste as well I suppose....
here in Britain we have been indoctrinated to believe that british beef is the best...but tell that to an Argentinian or Irish...and I'm sure you will here a disagreement.